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Post by slidinsideways on May 4, 2014 20:13:01 GMT -6
i am glad to see this class keep growing. These kids will move up thru the ranks and help keep our car counts up. They are a blast to watch. The little guys and gals can really drive!
NOW FOR THE BULLSHIT - to keep this class strong, the rules must be enforced for everyone. Looks like the cheater motors have been run off in this class for the most part. Why i'm p*ssed? I don't have a car in the class, but the failure to apply the rules, is going to kill growth. Friday night one car was dq'd for running illegal fuel. This was no accident. The father knows the rules and intentionally broke those rules to enhance performance - simply put he cheated or on the surface it looks that way. I don't know the specifics, but the board decided to break the club rules and overturn the dq and awarded the kid the trophy, the pay and the points. THIS IS BULLSHIT. Not fair to the rest of the Jr class and not fair to any other class. Stand up and voice your feelings or you might get cheated by this clan next time. I'm not going to name the car, but look under the results page to see who is listed as the Friday winner of the Jr class.
Also a Jr driver had his muffler come off somehow. This also is supposed to be a dq. Now this was not an intentional violation of the rules like the fuel deal but still a rule. The car was supposed to dq'd and no points and no pay. Guess what, some idiot decided to make their own rules and paid this car and awarded points. The track has a precedence set on this rule as winners in this class have been dq'd every year for the last 4 or 5 years. Now it is not going to be changed? MORE BULLSHIT. I hate this rule for the little guys but it is a rule that our club has enforced. Why the special treatment for this car?
It is bad enough running a stock motor in the stock classes against $5,000 or $10,000 motors. Why you need to spend that much for a stock class? Oh these will pass the bore and stroke test during tech. It is the special valve work. Flow the intakes. Carillo rods. And the special trick...lighten the crank, flywheel and drill the gears (it will still pass the shift test in tech). Big deal you say...add 7%-15% more hp by doing all this bottom end work that will never get tech'd. Each stock class has at least one or more of these special stock motors. I know you say well claim the motor...last guy who did that was targeted and he finally left our track for good.
Hell 2 years ago a nonwing car (hint: yellow car and ran into everything except the ambulance). They ran a Suzuki...the 750. They are identical to the outside, you cant tell the difference. It never really became a real issue because the kid couldn't drive for crap and probably never broke the top ten - even with the special motor. Kind of funny though. How do you think they felt after all that cheating they couldn't catch the front runners. They probably thought "hell they are all really cheating, cuz we are and can't get a sniff of the front". lol.
It is bad enough for an adult to cheat and have to look himself in the mirror, but for a dad to cheat without his kid knowing and then have to look your kid in the eye after getting caught and tell your kid why he got dq'd.
This sh*t has to stop.
Sound off club members. It has to stop.
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Post by Shaun Brandt on May 5, 2014 8:23:00 GMT -6
Here is a break down of what happened Friday night per the tech man's son. The car that was DQ'd on Friday for fuel pointed out to the board that there are contradicting rules regarding fuel in the rule book. He used a legal fuel per Kid Sprint Rules (which the rule books says we follow) but an illegal fuel per club rules. So he was allowed to pass tech per the club. The club then voted to use kid sprint rules exclusively and drop all club rules. I was not at that meeting when the vote was held, but I have to assume they made that ruling to make it easier for out of towners to come race there without having to buy extra fuel and equipment.
As to the muffler DQ. The kid was DQ'd on Friday night, but with the change in rules approved, the powers that be decided to overturn his DQ as well in the interest of fairness. I have not read all the Kid Sprint rules as I don't have a dog in the fight and I'm not the tech man so I don't know if they have a rule about the muffler.
As to the 600s, I can't begin to tell you how much the tach man would love to tear down motors, but if you do it to one, you have to do it to all. So unless everyone down there wants to have their motor torn down in the dirt every night, I doubt that will happen. Now, whenever this is suggested, everyone that is legal screams, "LETS DO IT!" but all the cheaters make up an excuse. The funny part about that is the excuse they come up with is the cost. A little ironic when they just spent a ton of money on a cheater motor.
This stuff has been going on for as long as I have been going there (since 1992) and not just at that track. Near as I can tell, cheating happens everywhere in racing. The more money that is involved, the more tech you see. Look at NASCAR and all it's corporate sponsors, they tear down all the finishers at that level to the last gasket. But when you look at the level of money in our track, you'll see that our tech process and procedures are more stringent than NASCAR speaking solely on a total investment to tech ratio. We're doing the best we can with our limited resources. If you have a cost effective suggestion or want to make a massive financial donation to the tech process, we're all ears (and open hands if you chose the money route).
Sorry if I wasn't much help. Just my two cents.
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Post by Wild Side on May 5, 2014 9:45:59 GMT -6
LETS DO IT!!! Since this group feels that they can arbitrarily change the rules anytime they want anyway, it will only take one night of tear down on the 600's with the possibility of it happening again at random times to fix this problem. I would be in favor of the taking a hit on the cost to rebuild than spending the same money each week to get to track as everyone else to not be able to compete in a stock class with a legal car. I would bet, except for the cheaters, most would be willing to pitch in a certain amount to the club to be able to give some money back to those racers that get torn down and are found to be legal to be able to rebuild. Make it mandatory. No buy in, no points fund. I still would bet it would only take one night to clean out those cars that go out each night and put a half a lap on the a field of 8 cars starting from the back in a 10 lap heat in NW or the cars that go out and can spin out, restart from the back in a feature and still win in BIG fashion every night in a stock class. You guys know who you are, it is almost embarrassingly obvious. You must feel really good about yourselves. Your right it does go on everywhere, but if we have the power to police it then why not do it. Why do we have to operate like everyone else and just turn our heads?
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Post by Rodney on May 6, 2014 22:25:50 GMT -6
The over-turn on the muffler DQ was my decision. With the unclear nature of the rules I did not feel it fair to DQ one car and not another. Therefore I threw out the ENTIRE tech results of Friday night. My thought was that was the most fair way to do it. Hopefully the issue as to the rules has now been cleared up. No one suggested nor pressured me to do this. I thank you that you have noticed in the past that a missing muffler in Jr. Sprints is a DQ. It sucks for the little drivers but I am told it increases HP by 5 or better. If you have any questions regarding equal application of rules feel free to discuss them with me. I am big enough to sign my given name here as is Shaun Brandt. I would appreciate the same from you. And to correct the points WERE returned to the car in question however pay was not. Misinformation is a dangerous weapon my friend. I urge all to have correct facts BEFORE posting. Thank you all for taking the time to read my rather wordy diatribe. - Rodney Gibson
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Post by 17 on May 7, 2014 7:37:59 GMT -6
I am not in favore of pitching in more money or tear down.
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Post by Nikki Knipmeyer on May 7, 2014 8:30:01 GMT -6
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Post by Nikki Knipmeyer on May 7, 2014 8:31:35 GMT -6
It amazes me time and time again how people have nothing better to do then to get on social media sites and post info that is inaccurate. Regarding the discrepency over the fuel that issue arose out if inconsistency in the rule book. The board met over this matter and agrees that the intentions is to run soley the Kid Sprint rules that way if we travel somewhere else or other cars travel here it is all the same rules. We support tech 100% they just have to make sure the rules are clear from one page to the next which I know they have and still are trying really hard to do that. It's not an easy job I understand. I guess my main purpose of posting is to reiterate what Rodney said about get the facts before u start putting things out there. Come ask the people involved what happened or go as a board member or an official. I know that is asking a lot because it is clear u want to trash talk just to trash talk otherwise u would sign ur name but at the end of the day we all know what is right. Here is to seeing more fantastic racing in the coming weeks. It takes all of us to make this place work. DO UR PART |
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Post by 15 on May 7, 2014 8:46:15 GMT -6
Me Neather
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Post by Wild Side on May 7, 2014 8:57:45 GMT -6
Sounds to me like you shouldn't have deleted the forum section from the website. At least then you could delete whatever you wanted to from the internet like it used to happen. It appears that move only created worse problems.
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Post by Nikki Knipmeyer on May 7, 2014 9:41:43 GMT -6
Again, As stated before facts are everything. You have to take that up with the board who choose to pull the message board. They felt that it was not being used in the matter it was intended right or wrong and they looked at several other racetracks websites and saw that very few of them had general forum. So the board votes to pull it. If u feel so strongly About it being reinstated u might suggest it to the board so they can discuss it.
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Post by outofcontrol on May 7, 2014 12:05:31 GMT -6
Funny how there is a "misinterpretation" of the what set of rules we should follow. It is very clear, and always has been. Nicki You know you used the muffler rule from the club rules to your advantage several years ago. A number of years ago I made myself known in a discussion involving your group and was threatened to have my *ss beat. After the beatdown I saw last Friday night, and previous blow ups I really want no part of having my *ss kicked because someone can't argue their point without bullying and fighting.
It is clear that this board was tricked into beliving that there is confusion. Rodney, you have never been confused about what fuel and muffler rules to follow. Nobody else was confused either. Nobody was even slightly confused about what rule applied. That s a BS excuse.
Now without a rule change proposal, these board idiots have now changed the rules once again. There is no advantage to changing our rules. It will not bring in more cars. It will not make it easier for our cars to travel. That is BS...it just allows for even more cheating in the fuel. Our club had a fuel rule for the Jr class to keep the cheating down...now the flood gates are open.
I am worried about what is going to happen next to the other classes. In my class, I am worried that the Pres is going to force his way into getting the 636 engines approved.
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Post by Rodney on May 7, 2014 14:26:39 GMT -6
You are correct that I have never been confused on the muffler rule. It was not discovered on track it was found in tech. I was not made aware of the discussion concerning the fuel. My throwing out all tech was based on my perception that it was not applied equatably. Had the muffler loss been discovered on track the DQ would have stood. I have no involvement in tech I only base my decisions on what I have knowledge of. However I am not dodging blame. As lead official all action fall to me. That said I take FULL responsibility for all issues and will strive to correct all problems going forward. We all want the same thing in the end. Let us strive to pull together. Rodney Gibson
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Post by Ingram Racing on May 7, 2014 19:49:15 GMT -6
Facts ARE everything: FACT: As of Friday night, when the race took place, the rule for the JR Sprint Class at Sweet Springs was Sonoco Purple with no additives. FACT: A car was racing a fuel other than Sonoco Purple on Friday night FACT: That car should've been DQ'd per the CLUB rules. What I really have a problem with is that we pay extra money to be voting members of the club, yet this decision was left only up to the board. Why did I pay to be a part of the club with voting privileges, when apparently that means nothing? Regardless, the decision/vote to change the rule was made Saturday, after this incident took place. Therefore, the rule as of Friday night was still Sonoco Purple with no additive. With the header and muffler thing, I feel the same way. The rules state that the car should've been DQ'd. It is really unfortunate because it was no one's fault and I sympathize with that kid, but rules are rules. We are fairly new to Jr sprint racing and are not trying to gain enemies or cause problems, but I just don't understand why there are even rules when apparently they don't have to be followed. I really like the facility at Sweet Springs. We had a friend with children racing, so last year we went and checked the place out. We were hooked! Everyone seemed nice, the racing was great, the prices were great, and the facility was nice. We bought our son a car within 2 weeks and started racing. Now we have another child wanting to race, so we have bought another car for our daughter. We have been in the racing world for a long time, so we know how the racing world works. I just think it is terrible that this is even an issue. We are not testing our kids' talents or teaching them how to be better racers when we are allowing rule-breaks and accommodating rule-changes. The way I see this, the rules have been altered to suit one person's needs, and in doing this put the feelings of 14 other drivers to the side. In a club, typically majority rules, just like last year when the idea was brought up of changing to methanol by someone in this same class. That resulted in an overwhelming vote to stick with Sonoco Purple.
Eddie Ingram
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Post by Jason White on May 7, 2014 21:30:20 GMT -6
The only issue I have with this whole deal is When was everyone going to be told of the change? When we showed up next week with option A, when we can run A,B,C, and D now?? If we vote on something, and it changes for the entire class, please let everyone know before nights end.
Jason White
Landen White Motorsports #5L
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Post by Trevor Howard on May 7, 2014 23:30:07 GMT -6
I don't usually comment on controversial items but on this for the sake of the jr class I wanted to. I am a firm believer that the rules should be followed and enforced from the simple stand point that it provides understanding of what is expected
And legal and provides conformity. This is not against anyone but more to maintain the integrity of the class gong forward. We are at approximately 17 juniors now . Which is more than restrictors and about where a class is and half or more may move up over the next few years Now there
Has been an overturning of some rules which will create an atmosphere of will it be ok next time. We have been wanting tech and now that we have it it seems there is confusion on fuel. Without a doubt I believe that the fuel it is the clearest
Rule defined in the jr sprint class from my reading of The rules numerous times. Also attention is called out to fuel under notable items. I think that the most appropriate thing for the integrity of the class would be to
Award 0 points to those that were not within the rules as posted and voted on. Going forward if there is a question on a rule interpretation have a point of contact.
This would be the absolute best thing for the class for sure I am 100 percent positive of this and restore the faith of all in the class that the rules are important. I believe only the best 13 races count and I firmly believe the right thing to do would be to agree for the class rules integrity, class sportsmanship and a continuation of numbers of juniors to enforce the rule
For this night. in addition, we will all be more aware of our rules
As far as others traveling I personally do not Know of a track that does not run Sunoco purple from ok,tx to ca other than two alcohol tracks
In addition based on experience if we our traveling we would for sure call ahead to inquire about fuel. In addition it is my nderstanding that Port City and the Tiulsa Shootout
Run purple. FYI I believe Port City is going to a fuel with their own dye in it to be purchased at the track for consistency.
As fas as the rule change by the board I am not sure that is how I understand the process I was thinking the rules were set for the year then in August
Or September we submit our requested changes ect that are reviewed then voted on in like feb of the next year
In addition,my knowledge of a digitron is that it checks fuel with a baseline source for example a sample of purple so that when checking you have
A sample. If there are four fuels to check how would the tech official be able to effectively tech the fuel in a reasonable amount of time. This is where
The open can of worms could enter in.
just a few of my thoughts
Trevor 913-484-7424
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Post by Mike Cromwell on May 8, 2014 6:00:19 GMT -6
I have been stewing on this deal all week as my kid was second in that race. I dont think the fuel made that car any faster than us at all, not even worried about that part. But the rules have Sunoco Purple in big bold letters not once, twice, but three times in the 2014 SSMC rule book and the rest of us have followed that. I dont agree with free passes whatsoever or making rules on the fly. I own the fuel meter and I have done some research this week. VP C10 will pass the digitron fuel test within 5 points of Sunoco Purple and would offer no performance gains. The fuel in question was 16 points off of the test sample which would not pass anywhere in the country. I did not test rocket fuel 111 as it is not available anywhere that I know of in this area but I am still looking for it and will make sure to test it when I find it. The rule is + or - 5 points off of a test sample which was provided at the track and one car did not pass. The rules are the rules and changing them in a club situation without a vote and in between days on a two race weekend is wrong on all levels. I think the kid did a great job driving that car on that night and he beat us because he drove better in traffic than mine did but we all have to play by the same rules. I am also a promoter of a jr sprint traveling series as most of you know. I am bringing 12 more cars in from all over the midwest this week and I accommodated my schedule so that they could also visit SSMC why they are in town. My rules state that it is sunoco purple only as I had tried to copy SSMC rules as much as possible to make it easy for all of us here. I am selling the fuel for the jr sprint class this week to them at the track. Those cars will be coming to SSMC with the legal fuel in them on Saturday. We will not be there this week but wish you all the best of luck Mike Cromwell www.mokanracing.com816-398-2219 |
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Post by Wild Side on May 8, 2014 8:16:57 GMT -6
Poor Kids! If they only knew that they were the ones acting like the adult.
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Post by Race Fan 72 on May 8, 2014 9:58:02 GMT -6
Wild Side, if you are trying to imply that the parents here are not acting like adults, you are sadly mistaken. Every one of the posts that the parents posted seem like they are simply stating their opinions. This is a forum (and thank God this is America) so they are free to do so. No one seems to be throwing fits or anything like that. If you ask me, the officials are the ones that are not acting like adults. "Let's cheat to accommodate our friend" is a rather immature mentality and that is what appears to have happened here. I do not have any children in this class, but I thought that SSMC was a better place than this - a place where fairness and equality prevailed. Perhaps I am mistaken.
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sph89
New Member
Posts: 19 
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Post by sph89 on May 8, 2014 10:02:04 GMT -6
I was not at the track Friday, but I did catch a little bit of the story on Saturday and since have learned a little more. Frankly, I am disappointed on many levels.
Come on guys there is no need for personal attacks. If you have an issue, state it in a constructive manner. Let's try to solve the class issues without tearing down the unity of the class. A couple of the bad seeds from the past years appear to be gone from SSMC and we have a fairly solid group of families now, and growing! Let's grow this class with a fair approach and common sense. This class is great for SSMC's back gate business. In my informal research, the JR class brings in as many, or possibly more, pit passes per car as any other class and all of the kids are raiding the concession stand nightly! The class is good for business!
I am friends with, or at least acquainted with, all of the Jr. parents and their children. This is not a personal attack of anyone. I hate that the innocent Jr. drivers are impacted by this. However, I feel it important to voice an opinion of a systemic issue within our club. What the board did regarding this issue specifically is a clear violation of authority. Section H of our rules clearly defines how a class rule is to be handled which was not followed. #4 of that section permits the board to take immediate action in an emergency situation to change a rule without following the rule change proposal protocol if such an emergency is deemed necessary to the interest and welfare of the club. These two specific issues, and the change from our SSMC club rules to the Kid Sprint Rules, clearly do not fall under this guideline.
Cars traveling into SSMC know what the rules are. Our rules are not the mitigating factor in outside travelers nor does our rules prevent any of the Jr. cars from traveling.
In all due respect to Rodney, you should not be in a position to determine the applicability of a rule or control the outcome of a tech failure. The rules are provided for you to enforce, and as you and I have discussed those rules should be written in a such a manner that it removes the requirement for you to interpret as you have enough judgment calls to make nightly without having to be put in a position to decide the intent of a rule. I respect your willingness to always step up and accept responsibility for any decision you make whether it is met with acceptance or be it met with threats of violence...sometimes!
The governing rules have not been in question for the Jr. class. As class participants we all clearly understood the applicability of the documents. If anyone was in question as to which document supersedes, this question could have been asked at the regular driver's meeting or at the special Jr driver's meeting. At the very least, if the Jr. class parents decided as a group that there is benefit in modifying, or interpreting the rule standards, then those modifications would be applicable moving forward and certainly not retroactive. The DQ's should be applied as rules clearly defined on Friday night. That sucks for the kids, but it is a teaching moment for us as parents.
As a previous poster stated, the class has a precedence as to how the detached muffler issue is handled. End of story. We too have fallen victim to this rule. We learned from that careless mistake and our muffler wont be falling off unless an on-track impact helps it fall off. As for the baffles, well I guess those could break loose at any time after the muffler has a few nights on it....fingers crossed they don't break loose.
This Sunoco Purple fuel issue has been discussed for a number of years. In my approx 5 years I cannot recall at anytime a question as to what document (SSMC class rule or Kid Sprint Engine Rules) specifies the fuel requirement at SSMC. Especially from any of the experienced parents. Our rules clearly delineate Sunoco Purple. 1) the fact that the appropriate fuel was not used is an issue 2) the info I was told this week and reported again in Mike Cromwell's post is that it just wasn't the incorrect fuel, but that it was significantly outside the acceptable limits of not only the clearly applicable SSMC Jr. Sprint rules, but is also outside the limits of the Kid Sprint Engine Rules...granted since whatever fuel was used in the car in question was not an approved fuel there is no way to set a baseline of the fuel used. However, the baseline fuel per the class rules is to be Sunoco Purple and this fuel indicated a 16 point deviation. On the surface, and as reported, this is a problem.
I'm not trying to throw the involved parties under the bus. I am looking for fairness and a common sense approach to preserve the integrity of this growing class. When I was a board member, it made me sick to my stomach to have to DQ an innocent kid who was victim of a technicality of the rules, but the rules are the rules and have to be protected. If any of our current rules needs amended, I am always open to a logical discussion and then, as a group, do what's in the best interest of this class.
Shawn Hulsey
816-918-0146
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